tv Brown v. Board of Education Opportunity and Integration CSPAN June 11, 2017 3:07am-4:24am EDT
records from wells fargo and the occ and others that indicate asleep at thewas wheel. >> c-span programs are available , on our-span.org homepage, and by searching the video library. >> now, educators and historians examine the impact of the landmark supreme court decision brown v board of education, which ended segregated schools. this marks the 63rd anniversary of the decision. it is one hour and 15 minutes.
>> i want to start her next panel. welcome to the second panel of the day. this panel is entitled where are we now, educational opportunity and integration. ur panelists will be gerard patterson, a scholar from the institute, commissioner of florida, a virginia secretary of education, and the president of the black alliance for educational options. he has a long history in education. dr. greg forster is the director oaken amia network at the center for transformational churches at trinity international in a received. freemanormally at the foundation for educational choice. he is the author of six books
and the co-author of three additional books. he received his phd with distinction at yale university. founder ands the ceo of digital pioneers academy, which i learned was just recently? -- yesterday >> a week ago -- yesterday? >> a week ago. >> given a charter to open in washington, d.c.. senior adviser for charter school policy at new leaders for new schools and the executive director for charter schools at the new york subsidiary of the public of education. so the goal of this panel is really simple. like the stories you heard in the last panel and the discussion you heard in the last panel, we want to discuss and review the data as it relates to education, and to -- educational opportunity and integration. what does the data tell us? what are the issues we have to deal with? withll start with gerard
10 minutes of comments, great with 10 minutes of comments, and maching will have 10 minutes of comments. then you, the audience, will fire some good questions, like johnny did last time. without further ado, start, please. >> let me thank for the -- thank the center for giving me the opportunity to talk about a subject is -- that is vitally important. 63 years ago, brown v board of education was decided by the supreme court. fast-forward. robert mentioned i was secretary of education in virginia and commissioner in florida. 50 years ago, it would have been impossible for me, as a black man, to serve as a state later in either of those two states. it was the work of brown, the naacp and the work of others who made this possible. 50 years ago, a member of -- a werer of our students
performing well in what they call segregated schools. they went to college. but there were resource challenges. fast-forward to today. more students, african-american and otherwise who were graduated from high school. many african-americans going to college whether hbcus or non-hbcus. one of the things that i believe chokes conversations about progress in his overreliance on the term "segregation." i say we have racially identifiable schools. i am under no -- deciding where people are going to live. i get it. to say that my oldest daughter who went to public schools, they are saying that 63 years worth of progress never happened and that is untrue. we have racially identifiable
schools told with poverty, but poverty is not an indicator of destiny. we are talking about what brown had a chance to do. it definitely shifted the type of schools it needed to defend. a we have a number of -- another thing about brown is the advancement of cell phones. this is a different conversation. [laughter] >> what we have today are racially identifiable schools with a set of challenges. we also have a set of schools: bullet to the public school option model and we will talk more about that.
last year, we had to members of congress commissioned a study. it was released may 17, 2016, identified that we had a number of students, nearly three fourths of a school that are commonly african-american or of color and under resourced. that still exists. one part of the report we didn't spend time on, was the majority -- for the sake of argument -- majority minority schools that won blue ravens or gold medals, because of their academic achievement. what we need to do is to look at the schools that exist. what are they doing differently? is it resources, family involvement, curriculum, expectations?
to say that we have schools that are segregated and not doing well just isn't true. the government -- be responsible for investing the resources. it is also a question about expenses. where is the money going? and washington, d.c., you hear a number of numbers. i had an opportunity to work for public schools, and we spent a lot of money. we did not have a 50% graduation rate, it wasn't because of money. there was a rise of special education. if there is something more you know 63 years later about brown, the number of special needs students, there were different names for them back then. for me, robert, as i close, 63 years from brown, we don't have sex dated schools -- have segregated schools. we have to finish out -- find out what the schools are doing. we have schools run by african-americans, hispanics, asians, we are now in positions of power in ways that we were at -- back in 1954, but today we manage a multibillion-dollar school budget. there are things we should be able to do to advance the narrative.
i'm excited to be in washington, d.c. speaking of this. back then, we wouldn't have been in this room. we are all brown's great-grandchildren and i am proud to be part of the conversation. >> thank you. i have been asked to speak about what the research shows on school choice. i'm sure you have all heard the joke about the economist who fell down the well. people ran over and said are you all right? he said i don't need a row, a semi-have a ladder. a just assume that i have ladder. one challenge in my field is that a lot of the studies published really don't look at data. they do not look at measurements of what has happened in the real
world. they take the author's assumption of what they think should happen, build a mathematical model, and present that as a data. one of the things i have to do is figure out which of these studies is using information out of the real world. one of the things we track and regularly publish updates on is the research on school choice and ethnic segregation. there have been 10 and." studies -- and pure gold -- empirical studies. nine studies have a positive finding that school choice have a benefit and a 10th study finds that it makes no visible
difference. seven of these 10 studies take a snapshot of the ethnic composition where kids are eligible for school choice, and a snapshot of private schools. the studies find that the private schools are less segregated. it tells us that the school choice programs are moving students from more separate data schools into less aggregated schools. while that is a snapshot, it tells us that school choice programs are moving from more segregated schools to less aggregated schools. the other studies are following individual students geared we don't often get to do that. that is a better method. we don't often get to do that. we don't get the data. there has been one in milwaukee and one and louisiana. the one in milwaukee found no difference.
one reason is the study didn't get going until 15 years after the program started. it was possible that the program had some effect on segregation. then it reached some equilibrium and there was no further information to be found. another plausible explanation is that milwaukee is a really segregated city, more segregated than the average city of that size. the students may be moving from overwhelmingly black public schools to overwhelmingly black private schools, so they are created to serve that population. we don't know. the transfers of students are not increasing segregation. the program and louisiana found that the program improves ethnic segregation. the studies downed a small increase in segregation and
private schools, but a much larger decrease in segregation in the public schools that students are transferring out of. it was a dramatic reduction of segregation in that program. the other study found no change, or the same -- a very large positive effect in public schools. these results are counterintuitive to many people. our culture has conditioned us to think that private schools are much more ethnically segregated than public schools. the data does not bear that out. school choice programs are often described as something that will increase segregation. it is counter intuitive to find out that it decreases segregation.
i think the main reason is because in the public system, students are assigned what schools they are going to go to taste on where they live and american neighborhoods are residentially very segregated. that is a combination of ethnic discrimination in the housing market, and people self selecting who want to live near other people who are like them or look like them, and there is actually feedback that those feed off of each other. one time, my wife and i moved into a new city and we caught the realtor filtering the housing results. boy, was he terrified when he realized he was caught. i don't think his motivation was discrimination. i do think, however, he was motivated to make the quickest sale he can, and he wants to show us as few houses as we are not going to be interested in as possible.
we were frustrated we couldn't find the house we wanted, as in as we took the filter all, we found the house we needed. and we lived there for several years. it was an enriching experience. sometimes, my friend on the right will say -- they pooh-pooh the idea there is still dissemination in the housing markets. i know my personal experience is not a valid empirical study, but weakened -- we can debate how widespread this is, but we cannot to debate that it happens. i think it is going to be extremely difficult to overcome ethnic segregation in schools. private school choice was not designed for the purpose of
reducing segregation, but because it disconnects where you live rom where you go to school, it does seem to have the effect of the desegregation of schools. i supported for a lot of reasons and i think it should be -- i think it should be a goal of limit isolation of our schools. i think the united states particularly, we are positioned to be on the cutting edge of the emergence of a new kind of human humidity. -- human community where communities are not ethnically exclusive. it is not something you find as you look at in history. i am very excited about school choice to position us where it eliminates that you cannot get into this community because of your ethnic background.
i think that's a great thing for school choice to be doing. >> thank you very much. >> i've got to respond to that. first, let me say thank you for inviting me to this wonderful conversation. as i was thinking about this panel, i reflected on my own personal position how i got here. i have an identical one sister. we grew up in new jersey, neither of our parents went to college, and we both failed kindergarten. yes, we both failed kindergarten. apparently, we colored outside the lines are didn't follow directions. i share that story because we were in new jersey that was a majority white community. my parents had just moved out of philadelphia and they wanted a better school option or us. -- for us. when we failed kindergarten, my mother took us out of public school and put us in private school.
i think it made all the difference for us. it's why i am a huge proponent of parental choice. i genuinely believe that every parents should be able to choose what school and what environment -- take away the construction of school, like how do you best meet the needs of each individual child. so fast-forward. i heard gerrard talk a little bit, as was previously megyn mentioned,etty soon -- as was previously mentioned, i was ceo of the charter school fund, i am a new jersey girl, excited to be back in newark, and now i am back in d.c. where my husband is a sixth generation washingtonian. whether it's the local city or state, the data or narrative, it really just comes down to what is happening locally. about two years ago, i went out to the silicon valley, the tech
entrepreneurs do things differently out there. the ceo of thumbtack said i hear this debate about schools, college, but this is the reality. if we are not preparing our students for their academic, economic, and their life as citizens in this global world, then we are not doing our job. i think of the purpose of brown v. board of education, where we are now, to make sure that every child can live a well-rounded life. when i hear data around the majority-minority communities. newark, new jersey is almost 100% eligible for free lunch and reduced lunch. a school in d.c. which is 100% african-american,
100% eligible for free lunch. if you want to talk about data in terms of -- i typically will say, if more white parents want to come to southeast adc, great. i don't think they are coming and till the neighborhoods are safe and they are provided high-quality options. until that happens, i think this is a false debate around is it majority-minority, segregated, to be in two cities where we have a thriving public school sector as well as a thriving charter sector, my perspective is those are false debates. we shouldn't be choosing between charter or district. every parent wants a great school, they don't care if it has "charter" in the name of it. or a traditional public school. i think that is what we heard from the last panel. pinpoint that i want to reflect upon, in the last panel, we talked about being in
the second wave of students post brown v. board of education. she described her experience of being invisible. i thought, that is exactly how the 1.2 million citizens dropping out of school today feel. indivisible. the answer is not more money or more schools. it is how we meet the needs of every student today, because of the digital economy, the world is moving fast. our students today are digital natives, we have to prepare them to move them into the digital economy of the future. and that's why i am excited to launch a school focused on computer science. i think that is a skill that everyone of us shall have. >> can i enroll? ms. ashton: can you teach it. >> thank you very much. we are going to do a little bit of a directed questions here and we want you to get engaged.
i'm going to ask the question, you say you are from the district -- it is 100%. and a school choice system if you are meeting the needs of every child, is it ok to have a school that is 100% minority? is that ok? ms. ashton: to me, again, it is the wrong question. it is how we meet the needs of individual students and when we look at the portfolio of schools, are they all the same model? do we give students a real choices? i once read a book that said the idea that there is no average here, there is no one size it's -- one-size-fits-all. the more we see children as an average, we are going to miss their talents, or two, we are going to bore them to death.
when we look at schools, we need to make sure there are innovative options, we look at school days, school years. and as i said, maybe school is not a place that students go to, maybe school is an online activity, but i think it is the wrong question for today. mr. enlow: is there a situation -- there are friends of mine who argue that the system as it is set up, public education is actually doing what it is intended to do, keep segregation from happening. is that true? what is the proper role of government in that situation? >> i want to go to your first question and then to the second. the question is, is it ok.
the answer is it depends on who you ask. if you ask richard ellenberg -- calenberg, and say not great, but i would like to see more economic diversification. a number of the students are going well, going to college, going to the military, starting businesses, and have jobs -- what about the los angeles school predominantly black, it is also a school of choice. there are racially identifiable schools who are doing well depending on who you ask. it is education today, tomorrow, and forever, that is what matters to me. the role of government is a small part. if you have a group of community members that want to have an economically integrated system, let it happen.
i see someone in back to work in cambridge, massachusetts. they have a choice program. people decided i'm going to move to cambridge, going to participate in the program to make it happen. the second oldest voluntary integration program was founded by black parents in 1966 who got tired of all the schools in boston not doing anything for them. so they created project exodus which now became a national program. the government was a small partner who would give academic and financial resources, and even work with a law to make it happen. so when people want to get involved and when necessary, government should have a heavy hand when discrimination is going on. >> i think to your question as to whether the system is designed to perpetuate segregation.
here is an experiment you can do on your own to confirm this. images, bring up a map of manhattan of ethnicity where the neighborhoods are color coded by f the city and then bring up a map of the school districts in manhattan. put those on your monitor next to each other. look at how the deuced it -- of the school district does a loop and stuff to make sure the school district stays tracked with the composition of ethnic neighborhoods. partly, that is a legacy of history. partly that is a problem where kids -- people don't want their kids mixing with other kids. and we have to confront that. it is a false dichotomy to say do we want a government solution or do we want school choice? public policyis and taking public funds and devoting it to public education. that's why people on the guestsrian end our
school choice because they don't like that the government is going to do this. but i am all for it. as to your other question, regarding is it ok? ok is probably not the right way to frame it, but policy is about trade-offs. it is not a question of do we want literacy and numeracy or do we want citizenship education. obviously, we want both. but the question is how do we prioritize those. there are people for whom literacy and numeracy has taken such a high priority that arts and education start to drop off because priorities are out of whack. the interesting question is should school the segregation be a priority or should we simply pursue good education and be indifferent to the demographic composition of the student body question mark so i wouldn't want to say, well, let's sacrifice all other priorities to
desegregation and let's not care whether kids learn to read and write or anything else because everything must be sacrificed into the mall of desegregation, the only thing we carry about. while i respect people who say we just want good education and we don't care about the demographics, i think one of the things we should want for our school system is for our children to form a common bond with people who are not like them. and i think that doesn't have to be limited to government schools either. i think private schools do that just as well, if not better. that is a whole research question we can talk about. part of the function of the school system should be to create a common bond among people who are not like one another. that can be challenging. that's a reason why it should be a goal of our education system. >> just very quickly, give us the research. >> there have been a number of studies on the tolerance of the rights of others.
this is a metric in the education studies going back decades, where the instrument they use is they ask a student to identify your most disliked group. people will name everything from republicans or democrats, pro-lifers are pro-choicers, evangelical christians or atheists. you get all kinds of stuff. then you ask a battery of questions. should people in that group be allowed to vote, be allowed to have a demonstration on main street, be allowed at a book in the public library that it's sympathetic to their views? findy consistently, we that private school students score a little better on those measurements than public school students. i don't want to blow that out of proportion. it is a moderate difference. but private schools do seem to do a better job of teaching students to tolerate the rights of others. lot toative matters a the conversation about the segregation.
take the term ethnicity. that is ubiquitous and it means many different things at many different times. today, we say ethnicity. we may not black. even those who consider themselves black are from other countries. if you spoke another language other than he was, the white groups have always had ethnicity. the designs were ethnic at one time. the irish were ethnic ellen time. the largest ethnic group would youly not be hispanics and notice states, but people of german descent. if we unpack what it means to be hispanic and what it means to be an ethnic group, even the term black is interesting. it is much more encompassing. but there are interesting nuances because some of them choose not to put their kids in title i schools or segregated schools. -- weso, we never see never say the white schools or segregated. ann brown, it was the black
schools bearing the burden. fairfax, one of the best public schools in the nation, where the majority of the students are asian, is that a segregated school? >> the idea back then was about resources. in the black communities, you had dilapidated buildings, no books or old books. fast forward today, we have beautiful buildings and all the books here but the kids can't read the books. i think it is important to put it in the context of what it actually means. right now, to me, i think education is the civil rights for our education. we must make sure that every student has access to quality and we meet the needs of individual students. i will say that over and over again. our studentselieve have expertise and brilliance in different areas. right now, we jews brilliance is one thing, test scores.
>> i couldn't agree with you more that one. last question before go to the audience. probably the wrong one to end on, but i will try anyway. this is a challenging environment politically. how do we break through the barrier of nonpartisanship around this? how can we do this in a more effective way? how do we have this discussion in a nonpartisan or bipartisan way? so that would begin to break down the ideology of both sides and we get everyone thinking about enlightened self-interest might be. >> i'm less interested in nonpartisanship because that will be tough to have. i am more willing to accept what i call coalitions of convenience. an area where we can coalesce around, make it convenient and work from there. >> this is why i am starting a school. i was honestly tired of the intellectual debate happening before this past november to what is happening now. are studentsere
learning in schools who are checked out, who are dropping out, who need all of us to be doing everything we can every single day to help them move forward in a natural -- and an intellectual debate is with stopping them. that being said, i do think, as my mentor taught me very well, which is finding this common strip of unity. how do we find ways to work together to move this forward so that -- and again, i think all politics being local, the national debate can be exhausted and nauseating. if you're going down to the local, whether it is d.c. or no work, really get involved in that local conversation around finding this common strip of unity i think is the only way to do it. >> i think a lot of the way that we accomplish that is by using new language. language comes with a lot of baggage. you can't always unpack the baggage and expanded. for example, i think the school choice movement is over invested in terms like markets and competition.
and enlightened self-interest. i will put that out there. think we need to unsay anything we have said. i don't think anything we have said is wrong per se, but we haven't stopped and said, when we say that, what me -- what we mean is this. in the languages heard differently by people who have a different language world where those words have different congress it -- connotations. in this and many other places, find a new words to describe things love created this coalitions of convenience. i think it is incumbent upon us to distance ourselves from anything that is going to take the school choice cause with moral scandal. in the real world, you do have to work with policymakers and policymakers are who they are. here in america, we have a long tradition of not revering our rulers too much and being realistic about the level of virtue that prevails in public office. but that being said, it is incumbent upon us to prioritize
coalitions across ideological boundaries, coalitions along ethnic boundaries, coalitions across party affiliation. if we prioritize that, we will find that it will require us to say someone covetable things. but if we are willing to do that, i think that is necessary. if school choice is going to be the future of american education and i just another policy fad that is here and gone tomorrow because somebody got elected. >> we want to have lots of questions. please ask a question and let's go from there. >> good afternoon. thank you very much for your comments. my name is pat tyson. i have three questions. number one, you talked about the districts in manhattan. when i look at the districts in washington, d.c. and birmingham
in north carolina, i see the same thing. has anything been done to look at economic segregation? that's my first question. second question is what will the impact of the gardendale district decision have on public schools? and in light of donald trump's budget and assuming -- yet that is a big assumption because they have said it is dead on arrival -- assuming it passes, what is the impact on public education and the goals of public education? >> i can answer the first question. i am not a budget analyst so i will plead that i don't have the economic expertise on the other two. economic segregation is studied. not as much as other types of segregation, but it is studied. it looks like both ethnic and economic segregation -- not so widely studied. it is hard to generalize.
the larger the body of studies, the easier to generalize the findings will stop certainly, american schools are heavily segregated by economic factors. that is fairly obvious. >> richard epstein, a scholar at the economic policy institute has a book and a number of articles focused on economic integration. in terms of the trump budget, only 10% of the total budget comes from federal, most estate and local. about 45.1% or 45.2%. where it will have impact is the
$2.1 million taken away from 21st century funding or after school programs will have an economic impact. a huge economic impact. the third case, the case that you mentioned i will talk about later. >> you have to look to the state and local budgets, however i am deeply concerned about the budget. although it supports me, who is starting a new charter school, it is impacting very directly our families. you cannot have one or the other. you have got to continue to advocate. but this is where locally, where the local organizations that have been doing this work for years, you have to rally together and leverage the differences sell our families can get those services. >> gardendale, you want to know about that?
>> that is in alabama [indiscernible] basically set up a segregated school system. >> yeah, i know enough in and about that so to not get into that. suburban versus urban areas. you see it and atlanta. -- you we see it in atlanta, in some of the counties there. part growinggger in there, too. but it's a big issue. >> clearly, it warrants more knowledge from our side. >> my name is jennifer from respectability. the name of your organization is advancing opportunity. when i hear the term "advancing opportunity," i think of the means to an end, the end to
which is the ability to get a job, keep a job, advance in a job and the ability for an individual to be part of a community where every kind of person has a seat at the table in our democracy. i want to ask you about children of color with disabilities who are really, really impacted by these decisions. to see what kind of data you are saying. -- you are seeing. the best private schools in washington will not accept children with significant disabilities, and the charter schools around the country in many cases are really not responsive to the needs of children with more involved disabilities, many of whom may have the strongest talent and ability of any of the youth in america. so what are your ideas about advancing opportunities with children of color with disabilities.
>> i have done studies on students with disabilities and while it is true that school , choice takes away the legal system, does not take away but if you are used to school choice than you are no longer part of the school system that allows you to school these -- sue the school for services. in fact, students with disabilities who you school -- who use school choice have consistently reported they are better conditions and they are not bullied or attacked at school as often. that is one of the most romantic -- most dramatic differences. the concerns being raised about students with disabilities not being able to find slots in schools have not materialize, do not seem to have materialized. i am not aware of any who cannot find a school. given the large number of school choice programs that serve large populations of students with
special needs, it does not seem to have materialized in the actual programs. >> i can show you evidence of that and would be happy to discuss it off-line. >> another data point, of those 61 programs of school choice, almost half of them are serving special needs kids. there has been a genetic growth in the number of private scholarship programs. >> i started my career as a special education teacher. all my work has been led by a simple motto which is -- good teaching is good teaching. specific for students with disabilities. that being said, i recently joined a board for charter schools and our goal is to make sure we are advocating on to -- on two fronts. when it comes to special education, the majority of time is focused on compliance and not
services. to the extent we can make sure our schools are given the tools, resources, and training to shift away from compliance and shift to programming that allows for more personalization then i think will be able to move the ball forward. but right now, many schools are inundated with lawsuits. some of them will deserving, some of them not. but the idea that a school leader has to spend more time dealing with compliance versus, how do we meet the individual needs of our students, i think that is the reality of white -- of why students with special needs are not being served today well. >> my name is gregory clay. my question simply is what do you think of betsy devos? [laughter] >> i have known that seat the
vase for 10 years. i knew her before she was a public figure. the commitment she made in the local and state arena to make a difference. i know her heart is committed to helping all kids. i know she knows idea it is a federal law. i know she wants to make sure schools comply. most of the conversation has been about school choice. and charter. what i can say is, her aim is not to destroy public education. >> i do not know her, but i do know that there interests. we have to find ways to work with whoever is in charge, whoever has the microphone. because our students require it. >> if the decent people refused to serve in public office, that leaves the indecent people to serve. i do not want to attack somebody for taking a position.
>> thank you. >> hello. i am a student i hampton university. my question is what impact is the extent to which schools are segregated or desegregated. do they have to do with college enrollment incompletion? >> data guy first. >> most of my research is on k-12 education so i'm hesitant to say much about a field where i don't have the education. i have looked at college entrants. the college entrants rate track pretty closely to graduation from high school with certain course requirements. we heard this morning, if you want your child to go to college you need to start taking algebra
in eighth grade. you need to do this, you need to do this. the u.s. department of education keeps fairly good data. from a really good sample of high school students looking at what courses they've taken that allows us to ask how many students graduate with the courses they would need to go to college and we can compare that to how many new freshmen enter college in a given year. they track pretty closely. i've not broken that down by ethnicity. that is ordered to do. show less text 00:46:01 gerard t. robinson college entrance data by ethnicity are harder to break down. there are specialists in that field, i do not happen to be one of them. >> you want african american students to go to high performing schools and also qualifying for scholarships. one thing we need to do a better job of his return mark african-american students to become national scholars. a lot of that requires them to take a pre-sat.
which we do not talk about until after the fact. that is part one. part two, regardless of race, students are entering college and enrolling immediately in non-college remedial courses. they are spending 1, 2, 3, 4 semesters enrolled in courses that do not count toward education. but i just -- but i thought we just spent millions of dollars invested in you and we gave you a high school diploma and said, guess what, you are now college ready. we can backward map today and figure out which sat score, a ct score or other that you need to be successful. while it will not guarantee, it will minimize the probability and we should have a conversation about that. >> there is one data point about the scholarship program that might bear out. children in the program tend to
graduate at higher rates than their peers and they tend to enter college at slightly higher rates and persistently higher rates. that is an important point to note from the d.c. scholarship program, which overwhelmingly serves children of color. >> thank you. great question. >> naomi shelton with the united negro college fund. i wanted to ask, to your point earlier about having -- coalescing around convenient points, if we take out all the nuance laneway's it we take out all those other things, i know that if i go to an event, they are going to ask me what are my whatallergies, so you know people are coming to the table meeting and wanting. if you don't want to have people coalesce around the things of convenience, what are the points of people should be having conversation around? one is the fun of the no question, whether we should give public money to religious schools.
i've a lot of friends who say, we like vouchers in milwaukee in the early years because of the we went to private, nonsectarian schools. but once they added the religious schools, separation of church and state is nowhere in the constitution. we know it comes in and 1802 letter thomas jefferson wrote in connecticut. you have to be clear. are you for money going to religious schools? another question is, should it go to schools that have had a history of segregation. ,fter the brown decision between 1954 to 1956, states began to pass nullification laws. they said there is no way in hell we're going to let the colored people come to school. congress members signed a manifesto saying the court can't tell us what to do.
the southern private school hadment as we know it today roots in field-based freedom of choice. some of the schools are still involved today. if you're saying, you know what, we pray, we cry, we are forgiven, yes, i am part of the collision. some say, nope, we still sigrid -- still segregated. the two wese are have to soften the beginning. >> i could only add, sometimes people on the panels with policies are framing that question and we should take that to the families and children we went to serve. when i sat down with my students, i said, you know, design a middle school in the future. what is most important to you. that is one of our core beliefs. student to be known, want and respected, they high-quality education. they don't want to be talked down.
they don't want to be saved. they want to be respected. aboutstevens is talks getting proximate. us be partnersp with the communities and families, we have to ask them the questions around what is the best solution. >> i would add one other coalition of convenience. have to ask the question do you believe all parents should have options or only some. right? this is a huge issue. right now, the system is set of that parents with money can have all the options they want, but not the parents without money. on one hand, we need to say let's only give money to families so we can equalize. or give it to everyone and get rid of the entire system. that is a very different coalition then -- than giving it to some. thank you so much. great question. >> my name is cynthia. i was wondering if you could speak to the role that industry plays when it comes to educating students in communities of color.
i am interested in terms of how they can make a positive and sustainable change and difference or how they have. and what are the things we really need to be concerned about one we think about industry in education? >> you have local chamber of commerce members who adopted a school system. corporate people who are involved. the number of executives who have done that for one day and then decided i did not realize principles had it to hard, let me see what i can do. i am one the boarddecided of a place in georgia. base petroleum company partnered with an interstate urban and suburban churches to try to get more african-americans and others into stem subjects.
so bp and us partnered together. this is a great time for all the money that we paid in buying products and the tax breaks that course -- corporations receive, trust me, we should have them >> one ofe involved the reasons we are launching the academy is the data said there is 1.2 million high-paying, high demand jobs in computer science and we have a high talent supply across the country. so we want to close that gap. what typically happens is, ok, we are going to prepare our students to going to the job, but then we don't talk to the industry. we don't talk to the heads of hr. we don't even talk to colleges and universities around what is the continuum. so starting in elementary or middle school, how do we help our students navigate from k12 the college to career? it something that does not
happen now. i think it is a missed opportunity. we have to help students navigate this world to get to each step. it goes down to personalization, but making the connection to industry to college-educated 12. and took k12. >> what an interesting example is in indianapolis where we have a group of business leaders that of gotten together with the chamber of commerce and they are getting the ceos of schools and bridging the gap he tween what these folks say we need and what these folks are providing. so they are trying to align it much better. providence.ample is this is an amazing model of schools. ,he families, all low income only serving loan come families. every friday, from freshman year onward, they don't go to school. they go to work with business. the business supports the school. by the end of the four years, all -- almost all of them get a
job at the business the internship at. >> john from the university system of maryland. one question for ms. ashton. will your digital academy prepare students for college as well as the world of work. technology will age, we not only need all of those college-educated people, but there was something in the news this past weekend about a turbine-building company, where they send students to technical college. will you also be the -- be focused on that? will that be part of your program? digital pioneers is an unapologetic college prep. it's 76% of the jobs require some college or post secondary education. to say whether you are college prep or not is a false choice.
however, i do think, in our school, we will provide students access to internships and experiences so they can be exposed to all of their opportunities, but also have the real skills coming out -- we start with a middle school and then we will be a high school. but they will have real skill to help them earn resources. i am working with a group of ninth graders who have computer science offerings that washington academy and they are developing websites. that is a skill for economic opportunity we want to provide our students. >> one place where i may disagree with my friend on this one is i think we focus to much on kids who have to go to college. >> that's my point. >> it is either yell or jail. yale or jail. college can not be for your, it can be credentials, certificates
. >> it does beat to the issue of parental choice. my mother in father say have to go to school. the state says i do school until 12th grade. what happens to my choice. nobody has spoken to that issue, really. >> you can emancipate in certain states that certain ages. >> that's true, but does the system provide further that in a pervasive way? >> not yet. >> that is a complicated factor. >> fair. my second question as to dr. forster. can you direct us to any sources that deal with the analysis of , as spectrum of data multivariate analysis, that controls the variables to which you have alluded, and provide us with a clear view, such as the ethnicity thing you did with manhattan?
are there other studies like that? for those of us who are out in the field, we need a clear picture. slanted oned one way or another. we need to be able to see them in an array and draw from them those inferences that lead us to making the right policy decisions. >> so you're asking me to advertise my work? i would love to do that. [laughter] the studies on how school choice in aams are intersected report week published called the win-win solution. if you google my name and win-win solution, you will find links to the actual studies. those are multivariate analyses. the thing i was talking about with manhattan district lines, that is not a study. you can call it up and eyeball it. i am looking at whether it will be possible to do some sort of
statistical analysis on the way boundary lines go around ethnic neighborhoods. that is tough and i am not promising i can pull it off. >> and that would take -- would include economic as well as health? >> i'm not sure how health will be involved. but i will see what we can come up with. >> there is a guy named tom patrick he works with wolf at the university of arkansas. they published a book about choice families in d.c. of good information, particularly since this is the most studied program, according to pat well. tom is up at him because he went to d.c. public schools, graduated from udc, and he is the first udc graduate to get a phd from harvard. i would take a look at his book. >> looks like i have another study to take care of here. thank you very much. good afternoon.
my name is dolores ray s. i'm a nonchalant -- dolores ray reyes. i'm an entrepreneur. things are changing here in washington in terms of where money is going. the department of defense is scheduled to have 334 ships built. more planes, etc.. some jobtly, there are opportunities for people in the trades. what are we doing for children who want to be in the trades? why things are the school help huntington ingersoll, who is the largest shipbuilding entity in the country. they don't need them yesterday. they need them now and they will need them tomorrow. what are you doing in the
education system to prepare them for other type of work other than going to a university, but in the trades? virginia, i think it's northrop grumman and they have a program for students who want to go to their school to actually learn the different type of jobs they have for that company. that program has been around for a number of years with some success. i had a chance to go to their graduation. young men and women walking away with a high school diploma and a job offer. somemes, making more than of our teachers make and they have three years of undergrad in two years of grad school. so that is one program in virginia that is having a good impact. and there is others. >> the answer again would be not enough. administratorh an who will remain nameless. they literally call it shop.
there is a charter school that we work with in gary, indiana, that is graduating kids from high school with a certificate and diploma in the workforce at the same time. they are graduating at the same time with both of them. there are models out there that are not scalable you. questions had several on how do we connect education better to the jobs that people are going out to after they get education. we have inherited in the last generation, particularly an education reform movement focused on academic achievement oriented message towards college. even when not specifically college, it is very abstract. we want high standards, but the high standards are not necessarily contextualized or anything. i think part of what that springs from, coming back to the topic that brings us together today, is that, in previous
generations, educational systems that connected better to vocation where delegitimized because they were being used to discriminate against ethnic minorities. you had a vocational track and then you had an academic track. and the academic track was for the lighter skinned people and the vocational track was for the darker skinned people. and this was a confidence game. and the vocational track did nothing to give your reading and writing and a well-balanced education and good citizenship and arts and literature and the other things that all people -- you may not be going to college, but everybody needs to get a well-rounded education that includes more than just had to do a job. one thing that i am hopeful about is that, as educational options increase, there will be to increasenities there will be more opportunity to build our vocational and contextualize education, that it will not be beholden to some distant bureaucracy that will have some other agenda. it will be under parents, not bureaucracy. >> a good point. thank you for a much. >> jeannie allen.
i am really glad you raised that. that was going to be my point and question. we have to be careful not to say or. and remember that we don't just a system where vocational is a part of it. if you say you are career and technical education of the people who are not qualified for the job to begin with. i think there is a cautionary tale here. all of our students, no matter what color they are, should be encouraged to aspire to a higher education. gerrard, the career and college-ready please, i guess my question for all of you is this. how much do we really believe that those career-ready standards are actually truly about exceptional education? the wonderfulen business community, who i think we absolutely need, the opportunity to safely place jobs?
where do we make those distractions so that we don't suddenly have this conversation 10 years from now where we are having yet another school system of charters that doesn't matter and we basically stockpile a bunch of jobs and say this could she go there? i didn't say to any of my kids you should go to a career. now i do sometimes. [laughter] i suspect for virginia and other people, there is no question, they want their kids to go to college. us not let them off the hook. we square college versus career, the potential for lower standards with the very important point made, which is that there are jobs out there that we cannot fill. >> let me start out with the first example. my son, who has special needs, wants to be a firefighter, which is a well-paying job over time. but there is no way on god's green earth he wants to get a four-year degree before he becomes a firefighter. i plan was to get them into the school public safety.
just so he has greater options at the end of it. that is how i looked at colleges for my son. dothe end of it, he can go the firefighting degree, which is a year, and then he could get a four-year degree. they sit so if it doesn't work at, he hasn't the fall back on. >> i agree with you. some businesses come to the table just to fill jobs. i get it. some have moved the neil more than others. , think virginia and florida their business councils have done exceptional work. i'm hopingr because for another word. if we want to change it, that's fine. 50% of the jobs that will exist 10 years from now do not exist now. >> the word career comes from a french word that means running in circles. [laughter]
i think we have a false choice that we are presented with. the current form of the education reform movement, a false choice between academic excellence and pragmatic useful education and the people who want academic excellence are phobic of anything that sounds pragmatic because that's an excuse not to teach people and the pragmatic people are focused on academics because that's disconnected from the real world and you won't use it. part of what drives this false divide is standardization. the closer we keep education to parents at the local community, the more we can define what is a good education in a way that combines academic excellence and pragmatic usefulness, remembering that pragmatic
usefulness is not the same as learning a particular skill of a particular job opening that a particular employer want you to have. >> and as long as local is not parochial. you can still be involved with the global but i'm fine with that. >> only thing i would add is i referenced earlier, ed rosen talks about the air pain in 1950 where they were all one size. the punch line is this -- the idea of an adjustable car thief. -- adjustable car seat. and so all i'm saying is every student has to have the adjustable seat to get them where they want to go, college and/or career. if you talk to any student today, they do not want to be told which career path to go through. this is the broader point is that my parents have said go to college. they were -- they were -- i was first generation college. they didn't care where i went. they just said go.
i think our students today have more access to information through technology. they have more big ideas about what they want to achieve. and so our job is to give them the adjustable car seat to get there. >> awesome. we're going to go with johnny taylor the last question. johnny: the only reason i'm last is because this is a question my staff wouldn't step up to ask and i promise i would ask it if it wasn't asked earlier. so here's the question. we romanticize and rewrite history often. but the question is we talk about the good old days and how wonderful it was, segregated black america. people say things were so great then. is there research to tell us that's true or not. because we talk about it or not and people say it was so great. but is there any objective data out there that says we really were performing. when i say "seg grated" i'm speaking in african-american community for purposes to look back at 1954. i don't know.
>> we do have some measurements but they were imperfect. the best measurement going back that far is high school graduation. high school graduation is about 2% at the turn of the century and it rises steadily over the course of the 21st search rip until it reaches 1970, 1978. it's been plateaued since then. from the 1950's to the 1970's we were continuing the progress for some time on high school graduation. high school graduation is really easy to measure. we researches love it because diplomas we know how many we gave out. the data is solid. after that it becomes much merkier. the standardized testing only goes from the 1970's. from the 1970's it's fairly flat. there are fluctuations in fourth grade and eighth grade. those are less important because if you have it up in fourth grade that by the time they go
to eighth grade the rise has disappeared. i'm not sure what's been focused. i look at scores from reading and math are flat. i mean, they're really flat over that period. the other measurement we have that can go back to the 1950's but it's very controversial is the s.a.t. we are the s.a.t. back to the 1950's. there's a fairly significant increase in scores in the 1950's and plateaus in the 1960's. but it's extremely controversial to use as a measurement of academic success and it's generally not used because it's too controversial. >> my father was born in 1913. and he saw real segregation in charleston, west virginia. i would never romanticize what's on the other side of the fence.
take a look at dunbar high school, founded in the late 19th century. the number of people that they produced who became cabinet level secretaries who became principals, dentists doctor who is went to the ivy league schools, it was arguably the first public black nool the country that's questionable but let's say that's true. take a look at what they were doing in the 1890's and the early 1900's. thomas soul wrote a piece called "from the ivy league to the nba." and what happened with the school before brown and after brown. he had a view that was radically different about brown. there was a time when all black schools and a number of the people were not our kind of people. they were what you would call regular folk who did extraordinary thing in a public school in this city.
>> i would say take a look at that. we are a interesting read. >> great questions. thank you very much. >> c-span's "washington journal" live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. , from the heritage foundation, discussing the recent testimony of james comey and his conversations with president trump. from the daily beast and the recent new republic article, the great democratic divide. can it elite liberals learn to embrace middle america? be sure to watch c-span's washington journal live at 7:00 eastern this morning. join the discussion.
>> tonight, q&a is in hyde park, new york, at the franklin d roosevelt presidential library and museum for a rare look at fdr's personal office and collection of artifacts with paul spero, the museum director. in junelibrary opened 1940 one. he was still president of the united states. northern ovale office. fdr had an incredibly inquisitive mind. there were 22,000 books. in here was selected by fdr to be in this room. this room is a most identical to the way it was on the day the fdr died. nothing has changed. >> watch queue and a from the franklin d roosevelt presidential library and museum in hyde park, new york tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span.
>> tonight on afterwards, new america president and ceo andrea slaughter examines global networking in the digital age in her book "the chest toward and the web, strategies in connection in a network world." she is interviewed by denis mcdonough. >> what was struck me was that we do there was a world of states and state threads. if you think about north korea or iran or sometimes china and that world of state to state relations is still very important. the chessboards world because it is the world of how do we essentially beat our adversaries. we think about a move and we try to anticipate what moves they are going to make. that world is there and it is very important. but equally important is what i call the world of the web, that
world of criminal networks, including terrorists, arms traffickers and drug traffickers. , which isof business increasingly big network supply chain, global corporations. and the world of nongovernmental organizations. i think of all those actors as web actors, as increasingly important actors. but we don't have strategies for how to bring them together. >> watch "afterwards," tonight on c-span2's book tv. >> on monday at the white house, president trump announced his plan to privatize the nations and traffic control system, separating the operation from the federal aviation administration and turning it over to a nonprofit organization. his remarks are about 30 minutes.